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Hear from our Chairman

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1 hour ago, Fifes Elite said:

Thanks for that nugget of info.

Moving back to the topic, some people on this thread seemed to be suspicious of the whole thing yesterday but appear more appeased after the video.

What info in the video gave you more comfort?

I think watching Ross it's evident this has been a huge relief to him getting this over the line. I believe it's a burden lifted and I think the demeanour of Ross showed that. I think the present Board had run out of initiatives and were probably running on vapour.

Of course that is very much an assumption, but one based on listening to what has been getting said for some time now. Especially when they were saying about having to pump in their own money to limit damage (and dare I say it probably to ensure survival). That isn't growth, nor is it sustainable (I'll mention sustainability later).

I don't see this deal just being about finance being put our way, it's very much about what fresh initiatives and expertise these guys can bring to help reinvigorate us and help take us up a knotch.

Ross was very enthusiastic about the calibre of these guys due to what their collective expertise has to offer. He mentions their ideas and initiatives. The consortium talk about sustainability in one piece I read today, that's good to hear. Long term sustainability is what we have to strive for. 

These guys also talk about ethos, community and culture. All things that are at the core of our clubs being. Let's challenge them to prove they match our expectations. 

I get the need to remain sceptical and the requirement to remain defensive about an institution we love and feel responsible for. The pressure is on these guys to win us round. 

The fan owned model is a fantastic ideal. An aspiration that should be held up in front of those running the club. But situations are fluid and being adaptable is essential given the state of our game just now. As long as our club is being treated with pride and with respect, while striving to achieve great things I'll be content. Just maybe when things get into a drumbeat and sustainability is being achieved, we can revisit how to bring back the subject matter on how to achieve some level of increased fan ownership. 

We're living in unprecedented times. Who knows how many clubs will survive if this virus doesn't f*ck off soon and let us get back to supporting our clubs. For now I think we're in a more fortunate place than most. They've put their money into our bank account. Equity, not a loan. That surely is a statement of intent. Now, let's hear from them and hopefully we can organise an opportunity for us, as fans to meet them face to face. 

Be rest assured I'm not blindly hanging out Ross McArthurs hoop, or being taken in by the 'glamour' of foreign investors. I'm just choosing to see positives for now, and I'm releasing trust toward both Ross and these 4 new guys.

They get it wrong, then we all have an issue. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Piracy said:

I think watching Ross it's evident this has been a huge relief to him getting this over the line. I believe it's a burden lifted and I think the demeanour of Ross showed that. I think the present Board had run out of initiatives and were probably running on vapour.

Of course that is very much an assumption, but one based on listening to what has been getting said for some time now. Especially when they were saying about having to pump in their own money to limit damage (and dare I say it probably to ensure survival). That isn't growth, nor is it sustainable (I'll mention sustainability later).

I don't see this deal just being about finance being put our way, it's very much about what fresh initiatives and expertise these guys can bring to help reinvigorate us and help take us up a knotch.

Ross was very enthusiastic about the calibre of these guys due to what their collective expertise has to offer. He mentions their ideas and initiatives. The consortium talk about sustainability in one piece I read today, that's good to hear. Long term sustainability is what we have to strive for. 

These guys also talk about ethos, community and culture. All things that are at the core of our clubs being. Let's challenge them to prove they match our expectations. 

I get the need to remain sceptical and the requirement to remain defensive about an institution we love and feel responsible for. The pressure is on these guys to win us round. 

The fan owned model is a fantastic ideal. An aspiration that should be held up in front of those running the club. But situations are fluid and being adaptable is essential given the state of our game just now. As long as our club is being treated with pride and with respect, while striving to achieve great things I'll be content. Just maybe when things get into a drumbeat and sustainability is being achieved, we can revisit how to bring back the subject matter on how to achieve some level of increased fan ownership. 

We're living in unprecedented times. Who knows how many clubs will survive if this virus doesn't f*ck off soon and let us get back to supporting our clubs. For now I think we're in a more fortunate place than most. They've put their money into our bank account. Equity, not a loan. That surely is a statement of intent. Now, let's hear from them and hopefully we can organise an opportunity for us, as fans to meet them face to face. 

Be rest assured I'm not blindly hanging out Ross McArthurs hoop, or being taken in by the 'glamour' of foreign investors. I'm just choosing to see positives for now, and I'm releasing trust toward both Ross and these 4 new guys.

They get it wrong, then we all have an issue. 

 

Fair enough and thanks for the decent reply. I'm not buying the whole thing though and some of the reactions in total support of a total unknown on social media and the like has me baffled. What I see on the face of it is a foreign investor coming into a Scottish club which looked like from the outside had a board that want to move on and was sort of at the end of its tether(albeit I don't think they would have handed the club over to just anyone, I believe they are convinced this is the right deal as the people involved do have the pars at heart).

However, The logic and facts say to me that in the short term we get capital in that will never really be paid back, these guys won't make a profit in their investment given no one except Fergus McCann has ever done so in Scottish football and for me after a while they may decide to overspend (when they have control of the club they can loan it as much as they want rather than just injecting capital for shares) leading to a loss, a risky strategy that doesn't guarantee success. Even getting into the premiership it's not exactly megabucks you get and you need to increase your outgoings just to consolidate. So far both Dundee clubs have been trading at a loss, Uniteds owners will never recoup the losses they have incurred for trying to buy the league looking at the accounts and that was before Covid which from the outside has to come home to roost at some point. 

We have a fanbase that wont drastically increase in size, proven by the Calderwood years, Dunfermline isn't going to have the same cultish fan base that St Pauli has or the same match day atmosphere if thats what everyone is dreaming off given its the police/government/sfa etc that out the blockers on most of the stuff german teams are allowed to do.

Once the second part of the deal goes through Ross and the rest of the board have lost control, therefore people with no real emotional attachment to the club can do what they like with it which is the worrying part for me, do they want to turn us in St Paulis feeder teams in some way, which may be good depending on what they do? Scotland isn't exactly famed for developing young players though and some clubs such as Falkirk have completely scrapped youth set ups/academys in recent years because they don't see it as viable. I also heard Ross mention that it would be great to have 9 or 10 players out in the industry we have sell on clauses for,  do many clubs in the top flight in our leagues have that many? That was Romanovs plan when he went to Hearts and it didn't work. They might decide to change various parts of the club. Change the strip like down in Cardiff or Saltford, change the badge? Do they see us as part of a franchise along with a number of clubs as well.

I think Ross has done everything he can really to explain the deal so far however I think we need to really hear from the investors what they are really are looking for and I really want to hear what the business model is going forward from them, we have this cash injection as a starting point but as Ross has mentioned 600k or similar could be wiped out in one year so how their model for sustainability will be that different from our boards will be interesting to hear. I would also want to know if they have a time limit on this project they have. 3 years? 5 years? 20 years? I'm sure they might have some idea in their heads.

On the brighter note (as I am focusing on the negative aspects) during current times an injection of cash probably keeps us on a sounder footing short term which is welcomed. 

 

Edited by Fifes Elite
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5 hours ago, Fifes Elite said:

Fair enough and thanks for the decent reply. I'm not buying the whole thing though and some of the reactions in total support of a total unknown on social media and the like has me baffled. What I see on the face of it is a foreign investor coming into a Scottish club which looked like from the outside had a board that want to move on and was sort of at the end of its tether(albeit I don't think they would have handed the club over to just anyone, I believe they are convinced this is the right deal as the people involved do have the pars at heart).

However, The logic and facts say to me that in the short term we get capital in that will never really be paid back, these guys won't make a profit in their investment given no one except Fergus McCann has ever done so in Scottish football and for me after a while they may decide to overspend (when they have control of the club they can loan it as much as they want rather than just injecting capital for shares) leading to a loss, a risky strategy that doesn't guarantee success. Even getting into the premiership it's not exactly megabucks you get and you need to increase your outgoings just to consolidate. So far both Dundee clubs have been trading at a loss, Uniteds owners will never recoup the losses they have incurred for trying to buy the league looking at the accounts and that was before Covid which from the outside has to come home to roost at some point. 

We have a fanbase that wont drastically increase in size, proven by the Calderwood years, Dunfermline isn't going to have the same cultish fan base that St Pauli has or the same match day atmosphere if thats what everyone is dreaming off given its the police/government/sfa etc that out the blockers on most of the stuff german teams are allowed to do.

Once the second part of the deal goes through Ross and the rest of the board have lost control, therefore people with no real emotional attachment to the club can do what they like with it which is the worrying part for me, do they want to turn us in St Paulis feeder teams in some way, which may be good depending on what they do? Scotland isn't exactly famed for developing young players though and some clubs such as Falkirk have completely scrapped youth set ups/academys in recent years because they don't see it as viable. I also heard Ross mention that it would be great to have 9 or 10 players out in the industry we have sell on clauses for,  do many clubs in the top flight in our leagues have that many? That was Romanovs plan when he went to Hearts and it didn't work. They might decide to change various parts of the club. Change the strip like down in Cardiff or Saltford, change the badge? Do they see us as part of a franchise along with a number of clubs as well.

I think Ross has done everything he can really to explain the deal so far however I think we need to really hear from the investors what they are really are looking for and I really want to hear what the business model is going forward from them, we have this cash injection as a starting point but as Ross has mentioned 600k or similar could be wiped out in one year so how their model for sustainability will be that different from our boards will be interesting to hear. I would also want to know if they have a time limit on this project they have. 3 years? 5 years? 20 years? I'm sure they might have some idea in their heads.

On the brighter note (as I am focusing on the negative aspects) during current times an injection of cash probably keeps us on a sounder footing short term which is welcomed. 

 

You're taking the news as a concerned fan. That's entirely natural. Is this a cop-out move?, maybe. 

If Ross McArthur were a different kind of guy. If Ross McArthur was heading off with immediate effect, then I'd be saying way different to what I wrote previously. Ross McArthur has made mistakes. But he admitted them, tried again and moved on. He's now trying to move us on again. 

If you want the truth from me, I'd be more concerned if Ross had left and others at the club took over. I think Ross is the one real reason a lot of fans trust the Board. So I'm basically saying this move has my backing because I trust him, so therefore his judgement. It just maybe that these guys have integrity as human beings, which is massively important to me personally. Also knowing integrity is one of the most prominent traits of Ross McArthur he must have made the judgement these guys have that in their armoury.

You know me, I'm not wet behind the ears and like yourself I don't just trust anything I'm told. This move isn't what I want. But it feels like something had to give. I didn't want that "give" to be Ross McArthur. Way back when all this kicked off, I got involved because of my brother. That's it really. I have since made a whole load of new pals and aqqaintences and I genuinely love this club, it's part of what I am now. So I don't want it f*cking up, and I'd stand with you and anyone else, again, if it ever goes wrong or bad. I'm here just now because I trust Ross McArthur, so for me he's fundementally the difference. 

 

 

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How refreshing to read some well reasoned and balanced inputs without the usual keyboard warrior insults - Its a breath of fresh air this Forum....

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2 hours ago, Piracy said:

You're taking the news as a concerned fan. That's entirely natural. Is this a cop-out move?, maybe. 

If Ross McArthur were a different kind of guy. If Ross McArthur was heading off with immediate effect, then I'd be saying way different to what I wrote previously. Ross McArthur has made mistakes. But he admitted them, tried again and moved on. He's now trying to move us on again. 

If you want the truth from me, I'd be more concerned if Ross had left and others at the club took over. I think Ross is the one real reason a lot of fans trust the Board. So I'm basically saying this move has my backing because I trust him, so therefore his judgement. It just maybe that these guys have integrity as human beings, which is massively important to me personally. Also knowing integrity is one of the most prominent traits of Ross McArthur he must have made the judgement these guys have that in their armoury.

You know me, I'm not wet behind the ears and like yourself I don't just trust anything I'm told. This move isn't what I want. But it feels like something had to give. I didn't want that "give" to be Ross McArthur. Way back when all this kicked off, I got involved because of my brother. That's it really. I have since made a whole load of new pals and aqqaintences and I genuinely love this club, it's part of what I am now. So I don't want it f*cking up, and I'd stand with you and anyone else, again, if it ever goes wrong or bad. I'm here just now because I trust Ross McArthur, so for me he's fundementally the difference. 

 

 

Its more than a concerned fan asking a few questions, its really simple in my head. These types if things have been tried before and being tried now by other clubs and eventually either an investor realises theres no money to be made, starts to gamble on success with significant losses, run out of money themselves (albeit from what people have said that's unlikely) or will get bored of their plaything they have no attachment to and bin it.

The problem with all this is Ross won't have control once they exercise the option for the other tranche in shares. Trust in Ross won't help when that happens and it appears he may be there to oversee the transitional period in the short term which is common in any sort of similar takeover/investment style deals. After that all bets are off.

I admire your optimism @Piracy and I can see why you feel like that but I cant follow it (yet).

Edited by Fifes Elite
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26 minutes ago, Fifes Elite said:

Its more than a concerned fan asking a few questions, its really simple in my head. These types if things have been tried before and being tried now by other clubs and eventually either an investor realises theres no money to be made, starts to gamble on success with significant losses, run out of money themselves (albeit from what people have said that's unlikely) or will get bored of their plaything they have no attachment to and bin it.

The problem with all this is Ross won't have control once they exercise the option for the other tranche in shares. Trust in Ross won't help when that happens and it appears he may be there to oversee the transitional period in the short term which is common in any sort of similar takeover/investment style deals. After that all bets are off.

I admire your optimism @Piracy and I can see why you feel like that but I cant follow it (yet).

You don't have to follow my optimism. All grown ups here bud. I'm not in any way dismissing your concerns either. I fully understand them.

Fact is though we've not many options open to us and so best we can do is try and establish new ideas and carry out enough due diligence to make sure they're workable and genuine. 

It'll be clearer as we go, when things open up and we can guage the cut of their jib. 

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I was going to post about the reasons for and against this particular event but I think most of it has already been said and also for some reason my tiny little brain keeps taking me to The Simpsons, Hungry, Hungry Homer episode where they are trying to move the baseball team to Albuquerque. I keep having visions of getting to the head of the queue at half-time for a pie and coffee to be told sorry we only have bratwust bridies left.

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The "why" question is going to keep most level headed fans cautious about this.

Only the investors can answer this and only after a considerable period of time can we be close to completely re-assured.

From what I can understand, the model isn't going to be solely about developing local kids, although that will hopefully be a priority.  It seems to be sort out the training facilities, sort out the coaching and try and pick up some gems whom would otherwise be playing for not much money in Eastern Europe and who have ambitions to play in England.  We bring them in, provide a platform for them do their thing, and move them on down south for a bit of cash (as opposed to them going to the likes of Hibs or Dundee Utd for a reduced fee).  In other words, pick up the likes of Andrius Skerla when they're at Zalgiris rather than when they're at PSV.

I'm pretty sceptical about how easy that is to do.  I'd also want to know, if they are super successful, how much of the profit stays in the club and how much will go out in dividends.  Similarly, do they have an exit strategy or do they really just want to own a community based football club in the image of St. Pauli?  

As Piracy says though, the comforting element in this is that the likes of Ross, Donald et al, are smarter, wiser and more successful than me - and they seem not just to think that these guys are on a level and good custodians for the club, but are absolutely glowing in their praise about the plans they have and the calibre of their character.  

Edited by DA-go Par Adonis
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Some excellent posts on this thread, as DD says (and great to see him posting again.) I'm in the optimistic camp, but I understand why some posters are concerned about how it will pan out.

Like Piracy, I've got to know Ross and Donald quite well and feel I can trust their judgement on this. Of course, it could turn out very badly for the Pars, but I don't think it will, because the BoD will have done a thorough "due diligence." As for integrity, they have sackloads of it in the Boardroom. 

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On 05/09/2020 at 19:01, GG Riva said:

As for integrity, they have sackloads of it in the Boardroom. 

In the main yes I agree. Could maybe do with a bit of tidying up in certain areas. Hopefully our new Board members will influence us further in ensuring longer term supporters matter and self interest never becomes prevelant. Ross won't be around for ever and we need leaders of a high calibre, who are socially inclusive. 

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On 04/09/2020 at 11:17, worldwiderab said:

I was going to post about the reasons for and against this particular event but I think most of it has already been said and also for some reason my tiny little brain keeps taking me to The Simpsons, Hungry, Hungry Homer episode where they are trying to move the baseball team to Albuquerque. I keep having visions of getting to the head of the queue at half-time for a pie and coffee to be told sorry we only have bratwust bridies left.

Bratwurst bridies sound cracking... 

I am cautiously optimistic about this.  The consortium seem to be doing this for all the right reasons however one of them is a banker and things didn't go too well with the last one... 

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1 hour ago, The Bad Guy said:

Bratwurst bridies sound cracking... ... 

Let's go there, we have nothing to lose but our chains and steak bridies. (Karl and Freddy) 

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