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I see the Sunderland manager was shown the door yesterday. I'd imagine Craig Fowler and John Potter will be following him up the road shortly since the new manager will almost certainly want to bring in his own team.

How long before someone spots them at EEP? 🙂

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Sunderland to Dunfermline is a huge step back.  Wont happen for Jack Ross, perhaps it could happen for Potter? 

Harsh decision by Sunderland, they are still in contention for automatic promotion, although its a bit early in the season to be talking about that.

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21 hours ago, Paradox said:

Basket case of a club.

It's a well known "fact" in football that clubs who regularly chop and change managers tend to be less successful than those who stick by the same one for a longer period.

In the latter category, we think of Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson at Man U, Arsene Wenger at Arsenal, Bill Shankly at Liverpool and Jock Stein at Celtic. Contrast that with Sunderland who have just sacked Jack Ross, their umpteenth managerial change and currently languishing in League 1.

Is this "fact" open to scrutiny, however? Do the less successful clubs not change their managers precisely because they're unsuccessful? Would they not tie their managers up on long term contracts if they put together a winning team that put trophies in the club's cabinets? Jock Stein brought instant success to Celtic after the poorest period in their history, so keeping him at Parkhead was an easy decision, but Celtic were quick to offer him an administrative post and bring in Billy McNeill when the titles dried up.

Without doubt, Man U persisting with Fergie in spite of an inauspicious beginning, is the most outstanding example of patience and loyalty to a manager paying off for a club. People forget that it took him 4 years to deliver a trophy and 7 years to win Man U's first league title in a generation.

Stick or twist? That is the dilemma facing every Chairman when his/her club is going through a poor spell. Increasingly, more and more club owners are choosing to twist. Jack Ross showed he was a good manager at St Mirren. He didn't suddenly become a poor manager overnight. Maybe if Sunderland had exercised a bit more patience he would have taken them up this season - we'll never know.

And there's no guarantee the new manager will get them promoted, either.....

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I will challenge your "fact".

Pep has been an undeniable success at three different clubs.  I would argue that four years isnt a long term.

Mourinho, chopped and changed clubs, a winner at Porto, Chelsea, Inter, Real Madrid.  Ok, not so much at Man United although his argument that reaching the CL with the dross squad was as good as a league title almost stands up considering where they are now.

Of course, success depends on the club and their goals, not necessarily measured in trophies? Neil Warnock has been a serial Championship promotion winner - Id say thats success?  Sam Alladyce has a knack of saving relegation threatened clubs - Id call that success? 

Look at Sean Dyche at Burnley for jusitification for standing by your manager - Burnley know their level, they arent spending big or over reaching, they are ticking over nicely.  The same applies at Bournemouth with Eddie Howe.  

And then there is the flip side, Newcastle, and Southampton, perhaps even Everton?

 

Edited by Vinnie

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''I will challenge your "fact".''

Well of course, it's in inverted commas for a reason, Vinnie. It's not so much a fact as a general rule, or received wisdom, if you prefer.

There are always exceptions to any rule.......... FACT! 😃 The more general the rule, the more exceptions you're likely to find, if you look hard enough. You've found most of them in your post, I reckon.

I would also argue that Mourinho is a good enough manager (although I don't like the man) to have amassed a good haul of trophies if he'd stayed at one club - he chose to leave some posts of his own accord.

And 4 years is a very long term when we're talking about the likes of Sunderland......

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To be fair, four years probably is long term given the demands for immediate results.  

To me, Sunderland demanding immediate results shows a lack of understanding of football these days, and perhaps that their board and fans have an inflated opinion of their club. 

Of course, I dont know the size of their budget compared to the rest of the division.  I suspect its the biggest in that league by quite a margin, though that wont automatically translate into success.

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I see Sunderland have identified Wycombe Wanderers manager, Gareth Ainsworth, as the man they want to succeed Jack Ross. Ironically, he's been in his present post for 7 years. In that time, Sunderland have been through just the 9 managers.

You would hope he would have the presence of mind to tell them to shove it, but if he's ambitious and confident in his own ability (not to mention a handsome salary increase) he'll be strongly tempted to take it, even though statistically, he could well be out of a job by the end of the season..........

Eta. I see that Phil Parkinson is now the 1/5 fav to take over. Maybe the bookies know something we don't?

Edited by GG Riva

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9 managers in 7 years is ridiculous.  However, that kind of shows that Jack Ross performed above the average, by lasting about 15 or 16 months. 

I always thought that Jack Ross was taking a big step up.  He had one good season at St Mirren, other than that, Im not sure what hes achieved.  I can imagine that the draw of Sunderland was as much about money as it was about ambition.  Compared to St Mirren, I expect he's pretty much set for life now? 

I also expect that for a guy like Phil Parkinson, or a guy like Ainsworth, the salary will make them financially comfortable enough for it to be worth their gamble. 

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