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GG Riva

No Deal or Remain?

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Do we have any idea as to the percentage of those who would be happy for the UK to leave the EU without a deal, either on the 31st October or at a later date?

The BBC is reporting that a deal by the end of this month is now looking extremely unlikely. We know that just under 52% of those who voted in the Referendum voted Leave, but how many of these would now be prepared to leave without a deal?

Presumably none of those who voted Remain would now want to leave without a deal, but I concede there may be a few exceptions. All in all, you have to think that a significant majority of those eligible to vote do not want to Leave without a deal, so why are Johnson and his lackeys so determined to go against the democratic will of the people?

The PM is portraying this struggle as the people v parliament, with him on the side of the people but he is wrongly assuming (perhaps deliberately) that everyone who voted Leave is happy to leave without a deal.

So much for democracy......

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I accept the result of the referendum, and that those who bothered to get off their hoops and vote, voted to leave.  (Incidentally, before anyone quotes that Scotland didnt vote to Leave, thats a nonsense argument, we had our chance of self-determination a few years back and in that vote said Scotland is part of the UK). 

I would prefer to leave with a deal in place, but at the same time, I believe its damaging to business to be hanging about indefinitely.  The EU now hold all the cards, they dont need to re-negotiate now - and thats the fault of the Tory Party for voting in Teresa May who was a weak PM.

I will also add, those who want Scottish Independence from Westminster only need to look at this Brexit clusterfcuk to see who Scotland could be denied a deal. 

Edited by Vinnie

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Do you think all those who voted Leave are happy for us to crash out without A deal, Vinnie?

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2 hours ago, Vinnie said:

leave.  (Incidentally, before anyone quotes that Scotland didnt vote to Leave, thats a nonsense argument, we had our chance of self-determination a few years back and in that vote said Scotland is part of the UK)

One of the clinching arguments that was run relentlessly by the No side was the staying in the EU argument. I also know many No voters who have changed their stance on this now.

That is nowhere near a nonsense argument. If it is nonsense arguments you want, revisit the Leave EU campaign.

It is ironic that someone ready to accept a no deal, immediately switches on project fear again in relation to Scottish Independence. 

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13 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

It is ironic that someone ready to accept a no deal, immediately switches on project fear again in relation to Scottish Independence. 

Is that referring to me?  

14 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

One of the clinching arguments that was run relentlessly by the No side was the staying in the EU argument. I also know many No voters who have changed their stance on this now.

 

21 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

If it is nonsense arguments you want, revisit the Leave EU campaign.

At the time of the Independence Referendum, nobody was considering a Brexit situation, so that kind of nullifies the point - you can only vote on the options in front of you.  Hindsight is incredible.  I keep on saying this, but both sides played a little dirty and were a tad economical with the truth. That's the way all political campaigns continue to be run.  

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I will also add, those who want Scottish Independence from Westminster only need to look at this Brexit clusterfcuk to see who Scotland could be denied a deal.”

I think that this is in the project fear category - as latterly defined by Brexit campaigners. 

On the one hand you lambast the UK’s weakness in undermining negotiations with a weak PM (who was there whilst hard-man Boris ran off and hid), implying that a tough PM could have got a deal (I think that Boris knew early on that there was no magic deal to be had - the ****er actually looked shocked rather than ecstatic the day after the vote).

On the other hand Scotland could be too wee and timid to get a deal with a spiteful Westminster (I assume that you meant Westminster and not the EU), so best not rock the boat.

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Confusing times.

You are probably right about Independence being a clusterfarqhar in the sense if there wasn’t something like a 60 /40 majority, a divided nation would be a complication. 

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4 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

Confusing times.

You are probably right about Independence being a clusterfarqhar in the sense if there wasn’t something like a 60 /40 majority, a divided nation would be a complication. 

Im quite conflicted about how I voted in the referendums.  As I said earlier, both sides of both referendums played a little dirty and were a tad economical with the truth.  I like to think that Im fairly intelligent, but I find myself getting a little tied up by these issues because I dont entirely trust our written media, I certainly dont trust the "facts" in blog sites, and our TV broadcasters will happily edit interviews to portray their own agenda.  

A Brexit deal was entirely possible.  It may not have been ideal, but it could have been done better.  The troubling aspect is that Teresa May was a pushover.  I think a trade deal suits both parties - not to do so cuts off the EU's nose despite its face (perhaps the EU is holding that card up their sleeve for now). 

Teresa May signed her deal too quickly, and the EU no longer needs to negotiate with us.  I wouldnt say the EU has bullied their way to an agreement that suits them more, I'd liken it to a marital divorce - one person wants to leave and gets their way in doing so, however, they cant also get the house, car, and furniture, but they might get the bed from the spare room and the smallest of the household tv's.    

Ultimately though, I do believe that our elected politicians must follow the result of votes.  Given that many of us have lost the will to live over Brexit, I dont think a Deal or No Deal referendum is useful to anyone particularly given that political campaigners are a tad economical with the truth.  

 

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Sky News reporting this afternoon that Barnier, the EUs Chief Negotiator, claims a new deal is possible, but that the deadline for next week makes it difficult.

I think talks will centre around the Irish back stop, rather than a whole new deal?  

As I understand it, this is the only aspect of Mays deal that has stopped enough votes for Mays deal. If a new deal is agreed on the back stop, I wonder if Westminster will try to move the goal posts again? 

Of course, if the EU back down on the back stop, will they back down on other issues?  And will Westminister see that as an opportunity to delay Brexit further? 

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Scotland was offered a Yes No option in its own referendum and decided No.  Scotland remains part of the UK and as part of the UK should abide by UK votes.

Otherwise we shouldnt bother with Parliaments or Governments? And folk remain uninterested in voting if the results are going to be ignored anyway? 

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12 minutes ago, The Beer Baron said:

I'm interested on being on the frickin' winning side of one of these for a change! 🤠

🤣🤣Me too...

I hate that Im conflicted by this... I believe in the processes of our voting system but maybe Im just being naive?

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