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GG Riva

3 pts for a win - has it made a difference?

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When 3 pts for a win was introduced in England in 1981, it was hailed as a great initiative that would change the mindset of defensive coaches and encourage attacking football. It was soon adopted all over the world. Has it really made any significant difference?

I don't know if there are any stats on this but a cursory glance at some final league tables suggests that it hasn't. In most cases, the same team would win the league and the same teams would be relegated if we'd stuck with 2 pts for a win. There are exceptions, of course, but they are rare. This season, Liverpool would have pipped Man City to the EPL title by a point. 

Has 3 pts for a win brought about the desired switch to more attacking, high scoring, entertaining games? Can't say I've noticed. Now I'm not advocating that we go back to 2 pts for a win - that would be silly. Besides, it can't be denied that 3 pts for a win is a psychological incentive for teams to go out to win. 

My main objection to 3 pts for a win is that it has made no appreciable difference to the entertainment value and a point is "lost" when a game is drawn. To address this and to encourage teams to adopt a more positive approach, which the present set up has failed to deliver, I would like to see the team which opens the scoring being awarded a bonus point ONLY if the game finishes as a SCORING DRAW. Games finishing 0-0 would only receive 1 pt each, as at present. 

Teams would know that if they can get the first goal in a game, they'd be guaranteed at least 2 pts if they concede an equaliser, hopefully making them less likely to sit in and play for a 0-0.

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That sounds like the kind of idea that is discussed between mates when everyone is ****ed in the pub. 

Nothing woring with the current system and that is just change for change sake

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I think it has been positive.  Maybe not so much here, as Ive always known three points for a win, but abroad, certainly.  Serie A is certainly a lot more attractive to TV viewers, and that also applies to watching many of the other European leagues. 

I dont see a pressing urgency to change the existing system.   

If I was to offer an alternative to @GG Riva's proposal, perhaps adding a bonus point where there is a three goal margin between teams, and perhaps a second bonus point for winning by a five goal margin?  How would the league look this year if you applied that to the EPL?  

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1 hour ago, Vinnie said:

If I was to offer an alternative to @GG Riva's proposal, perhaps adding a bonus point where there is a three goal margin between teams, and perhaps a second bonus point for winning by a five goal margin?  How would the league look this year if you applied that to the EPL?  

Don’t know  and don’t really care about the EPL, but a bonus point system in Scotland would simply entrench and reward further the financial dominance of the OF.

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41 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

Don’t know  and don’t really care about the EPL, but a bonus point system in Scotland would simply entrench and reward further the financial dominance of the OF.

Its a moot point as it wont ever happen, but I do agree you couldnt implement that here

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On the original post, I think it maybe illustrates that there is a perpetual notion, common to all eras, that somehow the modern game has become boring.

3 points were introduced in the early 80s in England for the reasons given above, to incentivise attacking football. The strange thing is, no one looking back seems to associate that era (70s / 80s) with defensive football.

 

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Copied this and Interesting that the Pars get mention at the relegation end of the stats 

How relegation would have been affected had three points for a win applied before 1994. 

1st to 2nd 1921-22 to 1973-74


1925 Motherwell would have gone down instead of Ayr United and while Third Lanark would still have been relegated they would have finished second last with ‘Well bottom. 

1926 St Johnstone instead of Raith Rovers.

1927 Dunfermline instead of Morton

1938 Not only would Dundee have avoided relegation they would have climbed five places to 14th, even finishing ahead of Queen’s Park who were 12th and would have dropped three places. Ayr United would have dropped two places and gone down.

1971 Dunfermline instead of St Mirren

1972 East Fife instead of Clyde. Dunfermline would still have gone down but would have been second last with East Fife bottom.

1974 Dunfermline (for the third time) instead of East Fife

No changes Premier to 1st 1975-1994 so in 66 seasons of relegation, seven changes, three of which would have relegated Dunfermline.

No changes to top ten in 1974-75 that qualified for Premier Division

1st to 2nd 1975-1994

1989 Clyde instead of Kilmarnock

So 19 seasons of relegation in two divisions and only one change would have occurred under three points for a win.

How promotion would have been affected had three points for a win applied before 1994.

1921-22-1973-74


1930 Promoted clubs Leith Athletic and East Fife would have swapped places with the latter winning the title.

1938 No change but three for a win AND goal difference would have seen Airdrieonians replace Albion Rovers on goals scored.

1963 Morton instead of East Stirlingshire. 

1972 St Mirren (4th) instead of Arbroath on goal difference

No changes to top six in 1974-75 that qualified for 1st division

1st division 1975-1994

1978 Dundee instead of Hearts

1979 Clydebank instead of Kilmarnock

1982 Hearts instead of Kilmarnock

1994 Dunfermline instead of Falkirk

No changes to 2nd-7th places in 1994 that qualified for the 1st in 1994-95.

Only two changes in 66 seasons to 1975 but four in 19 seasons afterwards.

2nd to 1st promotion 1975-1994

1980 Promoted clubs Falkirk & East Stirlingshire would have swapped places with ‘Shire champions.

1981 Cowdenbeath instead of Queen’s Park

1982 Arbroath instead of Alloa Athletic

1983 Promoted clubs Brechin & Meadowbank would have swapped with the latter as champions.

1987 Ayr United (4th) instead of Raith Rovers who would have dropped to 4th.

1990 Promoted pair Brechin & Kilmarnock would have swapped with Killie as champions.

1992 Promoted pair Dumbarton & Cowdenbeath would have swapped with Cowden as champions.

1993 Promoted pair Clyde & Brechin would have swapped with Brechin as champions. 

1994 No changes to 2nd-6th placed clubs that went into the 2nd in 1994-95.

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A few more stats 

1994-95
Dunfermline would have won the 1st on goal difference and Raith would have gone into the play-offs.

1996-97 Premier Kilmarnock would have dropped a point below both Motherwell and Hibs and into the play-offs. 3rd division East Stirling would have finished last, below Arbroath, on goal difference

1997-98 2nd division promoted pair Stranraer & Clydebank would have swapped places. 3rd division Ross County would have won promotion on goal difference instead of Arbroath

2000-01 2nd division Stenhousemuir would have dropped below Forfar & Queen’s Park and been relegated on goal difference. 

2001-02 2nd division. Stenhousemuir (again!) only escaped relegation because Airdrieonians folded. Under two for a win they would have been relegated instead of Morton, on goal difference. 

2002-03 2nd division Airdrie United would have been promoted instead of Brechin City, by a point. 3rd division promoted pair Morton & East Fife would have swapped places. 

2005-06 3rd division Berwick would have won the title and promotion by a point instead of Cowdenbeath who would have gone into the play-offs

2007-08 3rd division East Stirlingshire would have finished last instead of Forfar. 

2010-11 SPL Celtic would have won the title on goal difference from Rangers. 
 

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5 hours ago, the saline hill puma said:

That sounds like the kind of idea that is discussed between mates when everyone is ****ed in the pub. 

Nothing woring with the current system and that is just change for change sake

Why would you need to be ****ed to have a discussion of this idea? I wasn't advocating a return to 2 pts for a win. If a team has a chance of a bonus point for scoring the first goal, it just might make them less likely to sit in from the start.

1950 Par, how about 1965? Would the Pars have been champions with 3 pts for a win?

Edited by GG Riva

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2 hours ago, Teuchter said:

On the original post, I think it maybe illustrates that there is a perpetual notion, common to all eras, that somehow the modern game has become boring.

3 points were introduced in the early 80s in England for the reasons given above, to incentivise attacking football. The strange thing is, no one looking back seems to associate that era (70s / 80s) with defensive football.

 

It hasn't become boring in general, but some teams do lack ambition and are set up not to lose. My proposal would be to try and nudge them out of that, by increasing the reward on offer. Winning teams would still get 3 pts, 0-0 draws 1 pt and 0 pts for a loss. Only the team opening the scoring in a game finishing as a score draw would get an extra point. There might not be that many over the course of a season. I'd really like to see it trialled for a season in a lower league.

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1950 Par, how about 1965? Would the Pars have been champions with 3 pts for a win?

No GG 

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17 hours ago, The Beer Baron said:

What's wrong with trying to defend, for the most part?

Exactly.  There is nothing in the rules (or, for the pedantic, laws) that state you must attack attack attack.  Its simple, score more goals than you opponent.  Teams vary their tactics throughout a season depending on the opposition.  Tactics vary throughout a game even, depending on opponents tactics and injuries.  

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18 hours ago, GG Riva said:

It hasn't become boring in general, but some teams do lack ambition and are set up not to lose. My proposal would be to try and nudge them out of that, by increasing the reward on offer. Winning teams would still get 3 pts, 0-0 draws 1 pt and 0 pts for a loss. Only the team opening the scoring in a game finishing as a score draw would get an extra point. There might not be that many over the course of a season. I'd really like to see it trialled for a season in a lower league.

I think maybe the original decision in England was actually based on an observed decline in goals scored - I am not sure if the change worked. 

I think there is a definite logic to what you propose - it would certainly take the sting out of conceding last minute equalisers - but for me it over complicates things.

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