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Vinnie

Is English Football Best in World?

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59 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

City will be too strong for Spurs.  Liverpool will be too strong for Porto.  Juve will be too strong for Ajax. 

Barca vs United really could go either way. 

Barca look like they have too much quality for Man U. The 2nd leg at the Camp Nou is also likely to be an advantage to them. 

Didn't help PSG much, right enough.

As for the thread question, the English are getting a wee bit ahead of themselves again. No English club has won the CL since 2012 and in the previous 7 years, 7 English clubs have made it to the quarters - an average of one per season - hardly stunning. Of the 4, Liverpool and Spurs squeaked through the group stage and the two Manchester clubs also had their moments.

Edited by GG Riva

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48 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

Liverpool and Spurs squeaked through the group stage and the two Manchester clubs also had their moments.

For many clubs, getting through the groups is simply the target.  How they go about that often depends on the group they get - I seem to remember that Spurs had a tougher group, and if I recall, Kane was injured or not match fit, they had a few other injuries to contend with.  Man United were simply poor under Mourinho, so thats not a fair judgement of their season.  

 

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I would like to see Spurs get to the final as maybe Chas and Da...........

as maybe Dave will record a song for the occasion. Perhaps even with Ossie on guest vocals.

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1 hour ago, Vinnie said:

For many clubs, getting through the groups is simply the target.  How they go about that often depends on the group they get - I seem to remember that Spurs had a tougher group, and if I recall, Kane was injured or not match fit, they had a few other injuries to contend with.  Man United were simply poor under Mourinho, so thats not a fair judgement of their season.  

 

Yes, Spurs were in a difficult group, but they only got through because Inter failed to beat makeweights, PSV, at home in their final game. Liverpool lost all 3 away games, including v Red Star and City failed to beat OL, home or away. Fair point 're Man U, but still a bit lucky to get through.

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47 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

Yes, Spurs were in a difficult group, but they only got through because Inter failed to beat makeweights, PSV, at home in their final game. M

 

That's a nonsense argument though, GG. Essentially you're saying Spurs got through because different results happen in football. They got through because over the course of the group they were one of the top two in the group. That's how it works. 

Side note: this isn't trolling it's an attempt to engage in a debate which is exactly what this forum is all about. 

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2 hours ago, GG Riva said:

Liverpool lost all 3 away games, including v Red Star 

That didn't seem to hinder them in Munich, to be fair.

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2 hours ago, GG Riva said:

Yes, Spurs were in a difficult group, but they only got through because Inter failed to beat makeweights, PSV, at home in their final game. Liverpool lost all 3 away games, including v Red Star and City failed to beat OL, home or away. Fair point 're Man U, but still a bit lucky to get through.

Doesnt matter how they got there, they got there, out of the group, objective achieved.  I dont think Liverpool will care that they lost three away group games if they lift the trophy?

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9 hours ago, The Beer Baron said:

Nobody remembers anything in the long term except who wins. 

I remember that when Nottingham Forest first won the European Cup they knocked Liverpool out in the first round. Roon ye!

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13 hours ago, Keyser Soze said:

 

That's a nonsense argument though, GG. Essentially you're saying Spurs got through because different results happen in football. They got through because over the course of the group they were one of the top two in the group. That's how it works. 

Side note: this isn't trolling it's an attempt to engage in a debate which is exactly what this forum is all about. 

Yes, I know how it works, Keyser and I don't do nonsense arguments, so I'm sticking to my opinion that Spurs were a bit fortunate to go through. Here's why. 

After 5 rounds, Barca were already through with 13 points and consequently fielded a weakened side at home to Spurs in the last group game.. Inter and Spurs were level on 7 pts. The Italians had PSV at home in their final game. The Dutch side had amassed 1 miserly pt. in their previous 5 games and had little to play for other than pride. I think the bookies would have given you good odds against Spurs going through, but a late equaliser in the Camp Nou, after Coutinho had twice struck the post for Barca meant Spurs went through courtesy of Inter's disastrous draw at home to PSV.....

Of course the final group standings were decided after 6 rounds, but it can hardly be denied that Spurs qualification was due as much to Inter's failings as to their own merits. I rest my case, m'lud.

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18 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

 

Of course the final group standings were decided after 6 rounds, but it can hardly be denied that Spurs qualification was due as much to Inter's failings as to their own merits. I rest my case, m'lud.

 

Right, so Spurs finished above Inter because Inter were a bit rubbish? Erm, that's kinda the purpose of a league table, GG. The better teams finish at the top and the dross finish at the bottom. You want to have another go at this or shall we just chalk this up to you being a bit daft and not quite understanding how a league table works? 

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1 hour ago, Keyser Soze said:

 

Right, so Spurs finished above Inter because Inter were a bit rubbish? Erm, that's kinda the purpose of a league table, GG. The better teams finish at the top and the dross finish at the bottom. You want to have another go at this or shall we just chalk this up to you being a bit daft and not quite understanding how a league table works? 

Inter were poor, otherwise they'd have seen off PSV at home in their last group match, with qualification as the prize. Let's examine the facts, though. Spurs and Inter finished on 8 pts each, with identical GD. (-1) In the H2H games, Inter won 2-1 in the San Siro, Spurs 1-0 at Wembley, so Spurs finished above Inter on away goals. Hardly compelling evidence that they were any less rubbish than Inter.

Come to think of it, I think I'd like to retract my earlier concession that Spurs were in a tough group. It would be more accurate to say Barca were in a really easy group with  three poor sides. One of them had to go through, along with the Catalans.....

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16 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

Inter were poor, otherwise they'd have seen off PSV at home in their last group match, with qualification as the prize. Let's examine the facts, though. Spurs and Inter finished on 8 pts each, with identical GD. (-1) In the H2H games, Inter won 2-1 in the San Siro, Spurs 1-0 at Wembley, so Spurs finished above Inter on away goals. Hardly compelling evidence that they were any less rubbish than Inter.

Come to think of it, I think I'd like to retract my earlier concession that Spurs were in a tough group. It would be more accurate to say Barca were in a really easy group with  three poor sides. One of them had to go through, along with the Catalans.....

 

Riiiiiight...let's contact UEFA immediately and inform them that a league table is in fact completely unsuitable for deciding the relative quality of teams. Instead the new measure of quality is we let an aging Italian arbitrary select sides. You've completely lost it, mate. 

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